Talking to Michael Kopelman and Andrew Bunney

[ J A S O N ] The mission was to create a kind of capsule collection for Dickies which stuck to the brand’s values but was more reflective of modern, European tastes – is that right?

[ M I C H A E L ] We’ve always liked their utility product, but its focus, its cut was, understandably, very US-orientated.

[ A N D R E W ] What we wanted to do was refocus the product a little and some of the ideas behind it.

[ M I C H A E L ] For example, when we saw the visual work they put together for their previous magazine, ‘Working in LA’, we could see that it’s very sophisticated. So well documented… it was something that was very interesting. But we could also see that was a very US-centric thing and we knew that there were so many different people around us who would buy into all that minus the tattoos and minus all the other stuff that went around it. Basically, I just wanted to get back to that time where there were really good American basics, which were minimally branded and of a good quality. "There are tons of Americana-inspired brands that are really big now but I couldn’t find any one of them that’s well priced, rugged and could also comfortably fit in with what I know about, which is streetwear. So, we started to really look at the product and think about the possibilities that were looking us right in the face.

[ A N D R E W ] Some years ago, we went to the old Dickies showroom and I think there was a shirt that we liked. We liked the look of the shirt, we liked the feel of the shirt, but when we put it on the arms were, I don’t know how many inches, too long – too long in the body… all that kind of thing. Which is fine for somebody who’s working on an oil rig or something like that. "They’re probably much bigger than us and they need it for a different reason. Just how can you have those things and wear them today? Like Michael says, there’s a ton of American brands out there and maybe some have become heavily branded or have deviated in the past and gone in a different direction, but this one, Dickies, is still a real workwear brand and it is what it is. It’s neutral.

[ J A S O N ] Once you take it away from the LA, tattoo kind of thing, it really is neutral. It’s almost like a plain white tee, isn’t it? It’s got all the potential, and every type of streetwear person can get into it because that’s what it’s about.

[ A N D R E W ] "That is what it’s about, isn’t it? It’s about having something, adopting it and wearing it how you want to wear it. But if you do look at their old ads – their sort of ’50s ads – they were really just making some stuff that people want, not even really directed at people, but it was just some stuff that you could wear. I suppose to some it touched upon preppy/Ivy sort of style, and to some it was more uniform or a little bit military-like. It’s all different kinds of tastes.

[ M I C H A E L ] We like all of that. The first clothes that I was buying were American army chinos or the white T-shirts, onepocket T-shirts, grey sweatshirts, denim shirts. We like all of that. It’s great stuff, you can wear it in tons of different ways. You can wear it fitted or you can wear it very oversized. It’s all good really. "There used to be a shop on the King’s Road called Meanies, which I used to like, and they had a really good selection of American utility clothing. All kinds of brands. I liked that style because of movies like ‘"e Outsiders’ or ‘Animal House’. My heroes in those movies were wearing that kind of Americana stuff which wasn’t particularly branded. I like the way you can look at old American photographs and you can see great people, old and young, wearing this kind of basic stuff.

[ J A S O N ] Yeah, as long as the important ingredients in terms of the quality and authenticity are maintained, it is a bit like having a blank canvas.

[ A N D R E W ] I think the word ‘quality’ is an interesting one because if you talk about French quality in centuries gone by we’re talking about something very, very refined. If you talk about Italian productions now, you’d think it was made to a very high standard. If you think of American quality, I don’t think of those things. It’s a different kind of quality. If you think of a backpack, an American-made backpack, you’d expect the fabric to probably be quite tough and you’d expect the stitching to be quite tough. You wouldn’t expect a very high stitch count or anything like that, but you could probably put a whole load of books in it and it would really stand up. And I think that’s quite interesting. American-style quality. And it fits its price. I guess it’s all those slogans that I’m sure companies have used on their ads. It’s built for purpose, the price is correct with the strength or the quality or build – all those kind of things.

[ J A S O N ] But aren’t you guys going a bit against the contemporary grain by making something that’s utilitarian? Ordinarily, it’s utility and luxury as opposed to utility and affordability.

[ A N D R E W ] I think that’s quite popular now – utility and luxury. But, of course, the two things don’t necessarily sit that well together. We can all put a lot of pockets on something, but you’ve got to make sure you’ve got two there, or whatever it needs to be.

[ M I C H A E L ] Also, I want to complement the product that I’ve got in my shop. So I want to have, you know, the best of the best. But I also want to make it so that local people can come in and buy goods that they want to buy. I fully admit that the shop hasn’t always been like that but you learn about what your priorities are.

[ J A S O N ] For a while progressive streetwear culture hasn’t come through with that combination of quality and affordability. It has quality but it’s expensive, or it’s costly and people are paying primarily for the branding.

[ M I C H A E L ] You live and learn, don’t you? In the end, that was the thrill of Dickies. In recent times I don’t really think that it’s really been done. It’s just a good way to present a classic American workwear brand with a European fit.

[ J A S O N ] I imagine that the guys behind Dickies in Europe get it, because you’re coming with a ‘pan-European’ perspective, but do you think the American market will understand what’s going on, or is that completely irrelevant?

[ A N D R E W ] It’s just planned as something very small to begin with. Dickies in the US have their own giant business so I would imagine this isn’t going to register that much – in the beginning. But hopefully people will be into it and it will get press and people will talk about it. And gradually it’ll build from there.

[ M I C H A E L ] We see Dickies as a sort of American A.P.C. Andrew said that and that’s how we see it. Both of us really like A.P.C. and you know how visual that brand is, how utility that brand is. It’s a tall order to try to say that and want to make it, but so far we’re happy with what we’ve got.

[ J A S O N ] I suppose the thing about both A.P.C. and Dickies – which I hadn’t thought of before – is that they both have a kind of a discipline. As in: this is what they do, this is what they’re good at, and they just keep on doing it. And if you’re going to bring in the European element to Dickies, then it makes sense that it reflects a kind of A.P.C. discipline.

[ M I C H A E L ] Well, the only European aspect that we’re bringing into it is the fit. We just want to make it fit a little bit better. I mean, that’s the only aspect. I really like the ’60s era, and I like ’50s and ’60s style; that’s what I’m about. I like music from all different eras, but for clothing I really like that kind of ’50s and ’60s style, and that’s probably because that’s when I grew up.

[ J A S O N ] So, in the collection, is there denim, are there chinos?

[ A N D R E W ] Chino, shirts, jerseys, sweats and jackets – coats, rather, and bags to begin with. But it’s quite small – and then for spring we’ll just be expanding upon that. And then I guess we’ll start to look at denim, and just more things.

[ M I C H A E L ] "There must be denim.

[ A N D R E W ] Yeah, at a nice price.